Operating Systems > Windows 98 (Jun 1998)
Applications crash checking for DX plugins (Solved)
foksadure:
--- Quote from: dawful on September 17, 2023, 06:28:35 PM ---The USB audio device is more useful, then the internal AC97. It is a Behringer Xenyx Q502USB.
--- End quote ---
QX2442USB here, works out of the box on a WinMe(98lite)/XPTrust 2003 laptop as an USB Audio device.
I'd tend to believe Behringer used the same generic 2 channel USB audio DAC on all his Q/QX small mixer series.
It's the USB102CH part, and when looking at the VendorID in the driver properties, it's recognized as a Texas Instruments Burr-Brown PCM2902 Audio Codec.
https://fccid.io/XJVF09130
The PCM2902 was also found in their cheap USB audio interfaces (eg. UCA222, UM2, ...).
There's a link to the Ploytec v2.8.40 x64 driver in this thread at Gearspace:
https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/1316473-behringer-asio-driver-lower-end-interfaces.html
The last post says Behringer since switched to its in-house functional clone CoolAudio (v2902), which is most likely the same thing with a different ID.
--- Quote from: dawful on September 19, 2023, 01:27:32 AM ---I was able to update to Ploytec's 2.6.1 driver.
--- End quote ---
Thanks! I don't do audio ITB, but I'll try to install this one. I'm curious to see if it has an effect on MIDI timing in Cubase VST5, when using the ASIO audio engine as the reference clock instead of the MROS one.
Edit: no changes in timing, but the Ploytec ASIO driver works and latency is obviously much better than with Windows Millenium generic USB audio driver.
dawful:
--- Quote from: foksadure on October 20, 2023, 12:25:28 PM ---Thanks! I don't do audio ITB, but I'll try to install this one. I'm curious to see if it has an effect on MIDI timing in Cubase VST5, when using the ASIO audio engine as the reference clock instead of the MROS one.
Edit: no changes in timing, but the Ploytec ASIO driver works and latency is obviously much better than with Windows Millenium generic USB audio driver.
--- End quote ---
The state of ME's WDM driver support is much better then Win98FE (what I am using). You might be able to use the 2.8.24 version (maybe you've already tried?). It's doubtful that higher samplerates or bits are included, but I haven't tried. I think they are all working over USB1.1 bandwidth, even when used over USB2. The highest possible settings, under USB1.1 limitations, seems to be 48000kHz @ 24bit. If 2.8.24 added more bandwidth, that would be good to know. Especially, since the Windows driver is maxed at 48000kHz by 16bit.
ASIO4ALL should also work, for the Windows USB audio driver (often only partially working with Win98FE). Ploytec wants to be the only ASIO driver; so testing ASIO4ALL would require removing Ploytec. I'm not sure ASIO4ALL would be any benefit; I've had some software not work with ASIO4ALL. But it is good to have options. The last ASIO4ALL to work with Win9x is v2.14. -> https://asio4all.org/downloads/ASIO4ALL_2_14_English.exe
I'm glad it's of use to you. Latency was a real bummer, till I found it.
foksadure:
--- Quote from: dawful on October 20, 2023, 05:48:39 PM ---It's doubtful that higher samplerates or bits are included, but I haven't tried. I think they are all working over USB1.1 bandwidth, even when used over USB2. The highest possible settings, under USB1.1 limitations, seems to be 48000kHz @ 24bit. If 2.8.24 added more bandwidth, that would be good to know. Especially, since the Windows driver is maxed at 48000kHz by 16bit.
--- End quote ---
The PCM2900/2902 codec chip is USB 1.1, and caped at 16-bit 48k.
So any extra resolution bit or up-sampling would be done in software, at the driver or the host level.
https://www.ti.com/product/PCM2902
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm2902.pdf
--- Quote ---On-Chip USB Interface: Fully Compliant With USB 1.1 Specification
16-Bit Delta-Sigma ADC and DAC
Sampling rate:
DAC: 32, 44.1, 48 kHz
ADC: 8, 11.025, 16, 22.05, 32, 44.1, 48 kHz
On-Chip Clock Generator With Single 12-MHz
--- End quote ---
On WinME, I used v2.6.1, which has a specific setup exe for Win98.
On the XP side, the v2.8.24 seems okay.
Same installer design as the one of the infamous Akai EIE Pro USB audio interface, which InMusic/Akai Pro must have licensed from Ploytec as well.
dawful:
--- Quote from: foksadure on October 20, 2023, 06:35:41 PM ---Same installer design as the one of the infamous Akai EIE Pro USB audio interface, which InMusic/Akai Pro must have licensed from Ploytec as well.
--- End quote ---
I went through the list of HW/VEN IDs in the .inf file. They do list device names next to them, but that doesn't cover everything. I noticed "Alesis Mixing Desk" in there.
The Lexicon Omega and Digidesign Mbox are in there. I've been tempted to look at Mbox drivers, betting they licensed too. I've researched the Omega already, I know they licensed. It was too bad the Lexicon Lambda wasn't listed in there (USB powered and doesn't get as hot as the Omega).
I finally got a chance to look up your mixer. Very nice. I can see why you were hoping to improve the situation.
In my opinion, the RME Hammerfal/Multiface is top notch. But it doesn't have the external mixing abilities, boards like yours have. It does provide a software mixing board. I think it also provides a few hardware FX (probably thinking of some EMU PCMCIA or USB). Anyway, that is where I'm hoping to land, while in Win9x land.
Thanks, for the update on the 2902. That is also my chip. The 2900-2904 and 2906 are also supported. When I bought the Q502USB, few years back, I had though it supported higher samplerates and resolution. Tricky Tricky, they got me. I'm sure I wasn't worried.
Sorry, it didn't improve MIDI.
foksadure:
Nothing to write home about the QX2442USB: it's about the same than your Q502USB, just with more channels, busses and decent FX. Budget mixer.
MIDI timing is already very good on this system, thanks to a couple of Midex interfaces used with legacy Cubase (VST5/SX2).
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php/topic,3083.msg11155.html#msg11155
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php/topic,625.msg10927.html#msg10927
You seem going through a lot of trouble getting Win98FE to run with your devices, while you could use 98SE/Me, and streamline it with 98lite.
https://www.litepc.com/98lite.html
Getting rid of all the Internet Explorer bells and whistles yet retaining the WDM, FAT32 and USB support leads to a fast, responsive and stable system, even using a mechanical 2"5 HDD (mSATA feels just marginally faster). Still got the occasional BSOD, though. Win9x FTW.
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